Like with my sleep issue when you no longer suffer it is tougher when the problem returns. As I have returned to taking the MK-7 type my gastritis has again gone away. Day by day after stopping the MK-4 type at those doses my new onset bone pain which started after taking it at 45 mgs a day has resolved. 

So, it appears the MK-4 type at these doses caused bone pain in me. Why? That I do not know. I also could not find any explanation in the scientific literature. Perhaps it forced too much calcium into my bones? If that were the case it appears to me that would eventually resolve. 

As vitamin K2 the MK-4 type promotes osteoblast promotion and inhibition of prostaglandin formation. 1,2 Perhaps at optimal doses of vitamin D3 you produce more than enough of the MK-4 type. Or some of us do. Those who have bone pain may do so by overshooting the amount needed of the MK-4 type. 

In some of us this happens at even lower than optimal blood levels of vitamin D3. As many who I read about who were also suffering from bone pain were taking around 10,000 IUS a day. This is much lower than what I believe is the optimal dose of vitamin D3. 

Though ultimately testing the blood level is the best way to assure you are taking optimal amount.

As certainly there are people who ingest that much vitamin K2 the MK-4 type in their diet. The dose of 45 mg/day of vitamin K2 the MK-4 type may not be an issue.

An issue in those just starting on higher doses of vitamin D3. As in addition to my experience there was no mention of bone pain in the Japanese study that used 45 mgs of vitamin K2 the MK-4 typeit seems unlikely it was the dose. 3,4 

So why did I have it and it appears I am not alone as that bone pain that persisted prompted me to write this series. 

This is also the reason so much more study is needed but at realistic doses of vitamin D3 not the rickets level doses so often used in most research doses that are in the 400-600 IUS/day. 

Which even the most conservative person knowledgeable in this field will tell you is insufficient for all but perhaps treating rickets. To summarize what I have learned. Vitamin K2 the MK-7 type at 400-600 mcg/day along with optimal dosing and blood levels of vitamin D3 appears to prevent atherosclerosis.

Also, to prevent peptic ulcer disease in my experience. This with no negative effect on the Madison-HannaH effects of vitamin D3. The MK-4 type of vitamin K2 at a dose of 45 mgs/day in those already at optimal doses and blood levels of vitamin D3 appears to counter its Madison-HannaH effects. 

Resulting in loss of sleep and weight gain initially. However, it may be helpful in the rare few who when starting out on optimal dosing of vitamin D3 who initially experience bone pain. However, in my experience this initial bone pain is rare.

Rare especially in those who take a higher dose of magnesium (1.6 2.4 grams). They reach these levels by gradually titrating up. Thus, most once at optimal blood levels of vitamin D3 they either produce more than enough of the MK-4 type in their gut, so it is not needed, or needed at a much lower dose. 

By taking a higher dose it, somehow interferes with the Madison-HannaH effects. So, bone pain from “remineralization” or whatever reason should not be much of an issue though as always more study is needed. Also taking lots and probably any additional calcium is a bad idea if inflamed. 

Unless of course you start to have cramping in fingers or toes consistent with hypocalcemia (low blood calcium levels). I and others have experienced this when first starting on optimal doses of vitamin D3. It occurred because 

I believe the vitamin D3 was driving calcium into my and their bones to correct the osteoporosis we suffered. No, I did not take any vitamin K2 at the time and yet my bones and many others were restored to full bone density. 

No, I did not do a bone biopsy. And again, why more study is again needed. Yes, I sound like a broken record, but I know I and others who are much higher doses and blood levels of vitamin D3 are on the correct tract. 

I want it to be confirmed by studies and to find out if research beyond my own personal confirms what I have seen in thousands of former patients as well as myself. That optimal dosing of vitamin D3 achieving optimal blood levels restored our health in general and gut health.

Thus, with restored gut health we can produce enough vitamin K2. Though if ill with atherosclerosis or peptic ulcer disease extra vitamin K2 the MK-7 type may and probably is warranted. Unfortunately, are foods being bereft of magnesium and boron.

Because they are missing for optimal health and bone health they must be supplemented. Unless you grow your own food and make sure the soil is rich in these substances. My next series of blog postings I am working on are about our food and what is in it that potentially makes us ill.

  1. Hara, K, Akiyama , Y, Shiraki, M, et al.. (1993). Menatetrenone inhibits bone resorption partly through inhibition of PGE2 synthesis in vitro. J Bone Miner Res 8: 535– 542.
  2. Akiyama Y, Hara K, Morita I, et al.. (1994) Effect of vitamin K2 (menatetrenone) on osteoclast‐like cell formation in mouse bone marrow cultures. Eur J Pharmacol 263: 181– 185.
  3. Shiraki M, Shiraki S, Miura M, et al. (2000). Vitamin K2 (Menatetrenone) Effectively Prevents Fractures and Sustains Lumbar Bone Density in Osteoporosis. J Bone Miner Res, 15: 515-521.
  4. Ishida T. (2008) Vitamin K2. Clinical Calcium. 18 (10): 1476-1482.

*The information posted above is for educational purposes only. Always check with your doctor before initiating any changes in your medical treatment. If you do not, then The Two-Minute Health Fact, Dr. Judson Somerville, nor The Optimal Dose is responsible!

1 Comment

Karen · August 26, 2019 at 1:07 am

So should I take a vitamin k2 d3 combo? Or D3 alone?

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